Billie Jean King and Jason Collins on Being Gay Athletes

6/27/2014 | The New York Times

Billie Jean King loves to connect.  The 70-year-old tennis legend — winner of 39 Grand Slam titles, the Presidential Medal of Freedom and, most famously, the “Battle of the Sexes” match against Bobby Riggs in 1973 — peppers questions like forehand volleys.  Within three minutes of walking into Boulud Sud, near Lincoln Center, Ms. King had learned that the restaurant manager’s mother rowed crew for Syracuse University; asked her interviewer’s partner’s name (and tossed it off casually through the afternoon); and compared notes on the French Open with the waiter.

Enter Jason Collins, the 7-foot-tall, 13-season veteran of the National Basketball Association, and the first male athlete in a major American team sport to publicly announce he was gay while playing.  Mr. Collins, 35, did that on the cover of Sports Illustrated last year, causing an explosion in the Twittersphere and the beginning of a digital friendship with Ms. King.  Mr. Collins likes to connect, too — whether in “surreal” congratulatory calls with President Obama or talking about diversity at the State Department.  Over artichokes and daurade (for Ms. King) and shrimp and diver scallops (for Mr. Collins), they spoke candidly with The New York Times about their sporting and romantic lives; their radically different coming out stories; and Michael Sam’s notorious draft-day kiss.

BILLIE JEAN KING: The man! Finally, Jason, we meet in person.

PHILIP GALANES: I’ve read all about your Twitter friendship. Very 21st century. When did that start?

BJK: We don’t tweet much actually.

JASON COLLINS: No, it’s mostly texting. Let’s see, I came out on a Monday …

BJK: And I gave you a few days to [Ms. King sighs loudly]. Then I called on Friday.

PG: Do you remember what you talked about?

BJK: He said he finally had a date that night. “I get to breathe for the first time.” I think that’s what you told me. And he’s got a California accent, so I related.

PG: Where are you from?

JC: I’m a Valley guy. From Northridge, then we moved to Granada Hills.

BJK: But he went to fancy schools. Harvard-Westlake, then Stanford. I’m a public school kid from Long Beach. I went to Long Beach Poly. Ever heard of it?

JC: Sure. My old point guard from Stanford went there. He always talks about Cameron Diaz going there.

BJK: She did. She lived three blocks from my parents. When I saw her house, I thought: She really wanted to get out of here.

PG: The stars, they’re just like us …

BJK: What did your dad and mom do?

JC: My parents worked for Travelers Insurance. They met in Hartford, but my mom got transferred to L.A., and my dad to Detroit. He thought: This isn’t going to work. So he got himself transferred to L.A., and they got married, and then my brother and I came along.

BJK: Your brother was a [professional] basketball player, too?

JC: He was.

PG: And Billie Jean’s brother, Randy Moffitt, was a pro baseball player. Two sporting families. So, tell me: What makes athletes such powerful social figures? Why is one of my most vivid memories as a kid you beating Bobby Riggs in the “Battle of the Sexes”?

BJK: It’s amazing how many boys remember that.

PG: My mother and I were jumping up and down. Why do we care so much about sports?

BJK: Because they reflect what’s going on. Sports is a universal language, no matter where you are in the world. They shape time and space, like dance. And the stakes are high.

JC: There’s a great new campaign that YouTube launched [to honor the gay community], called “Proud to Play,” and it starts off with a speech by Nelson Mandela. He talks about how sports transcend race, color, religion. It’s about: Can you play?

BJK: It’s a meritocracy, for real. Not subjective at all. You win or you lose. And that’s it.

JC: It’s a little different in team sports. You can still make plays to help the team, even if …

BJK: That’s true. I grew up in team sports. Basketball was my first love, then baseball and softball. I didn’t find tennis until fifth grade, when my classmate asked me to play. I said, “What’s tennis?” And when I went with her to this country club, I thought: “Uh oh. I’m not going to able to afford this.”

PG: You understood money that young?

BJK: Sure. My parents sat me down at 10 and showed me their budget. After that, I understood when they said no, it’s wasn’t because they didn’t want to buy me something, it was because we couldn’t afford it. It made things simple. It was also my epiphany as a little girl: I would fight for equal opportunity in my sport, for girls and boys, rich and poor.

JC: We learned that at an early age, too. Having a twin, you always have to share.

BJK: Did you guys get along?

JC: We had some sibling rivalry, but our parents always made us play on the same team, so it was about the team’s success and not the individual.

PG: One of the funniest parts of Jason’s coming out is when he told his twin — which is like a cliché for closeness — and his brother had no idea. So, is he clueless, or should you be a spy?

JC: I could sell it.

BJK: What?! He didn’t know until the magazine came out?

JC: No, I told him earlier. I told my family and close friends over the course of the year before Sports Illustrated. But I had never been out on a date because I was afraid.

BJK: If that many people know, even if they’re friends, most of the time you’ll get outed.

JC: That was why I decided to control my story and tell it on my terms.

BJK: Smart.

PG: The differences in your coming-out stories play like the last 30 years in American society. Billie Jean was outed in 1981. On a misery scale of 1 to 10, was it a 12?

BJK: It was horrible. I had an affair with Marilyn Barnett [Ms. King’s former assistant] and she outed me.

PG: What was her motivation?

BJK: Money. She wanted a house, stuff like that.

PG: And you were married to a man at the time.

BJK: I had asked [former husband] Larry for a divorce way before that, but he wouldn’t give it to me. I loved him, but I couldn’t talk to him. I couldn’t talk to anyone. And I believe in monogamy, so I was screwed. It was terrible. I lost all my money overnight, paying lawyers. All my endorsements were yanked. And I was really worried about women’s professional tennis, which was just starting, and our fight for equality with men — for equal pay. I was paralyzed. Did you feel that?

JC: For the longest time.

PG: Of course, there was a silver lining: As terrible as being outed was, it made it easier for kids like us to come out.

BJK: That was my hope: that it would help somebody else. And I got there pretty fast because it was also about being true to myself. But Larry and the P.R. people, nobody wanted me to come out. My lawyers denied the story before they even asked me about it. But I fought for 48 hours to have that press conference. I needed to tell the truth.

JC: I was focused on: It’s time. I was ready, and I was tired of waiting for some other guy who was still active in sports to do it.

BJK: Some of the guys retired and then they came out.

JC: Like [former N.B.A. player] John Amaechi. He was a mentor to me.

PG: You two must be the go-to people for gay athletes. Any interesting conversations?

BJK: After me, some guy at Newsday was going to out Martina [Navratilova]. She asked me what to do. I said: Don’t get outed! Control your message, like Jason did. That’s why I’m so happy for you, because I lived through an outing. I was trying to get ready, but it was so hard.

JC: After I came out, I was anticipating younger people coming to me, like I went to John. But I was at a sporting event and a person a few years older came up to me and told me he was struggling. I wasn’t expecting that.

BJK: Do you think there are lots of gays in the N.B.A.?

JC: No.

BJK: A few?

JC: Yes.

BJK: Do you know there are a few?

JC: Yes. Just like in any sport.

PG: What do you say when they ask for advice?

JC: I listen mostly and offer support. You don’t want to tell them what to do because everybody has their own path.

BJK: I tell them: You’ll know when you’re ready.

PG: Did your families have a hard time with it?

JC: Some of my family come from a generation where you just don’t discuss it. But my thing is, I’m 7 feet tall and African-American. I don’t blend in. Not talking about it isn’t going to work.

BJK: People couldn’t believe it when I gave my press conference because Larry was with me. But I loved him so much. His children are our godchildren. And my poor parents, I tried talking to them twice, but they weren’t ready, either. That was the toughest thing. They were so homophobic.

JC: And I didn’t have the tools to talk about it, but we did some therapy about communicating and adjusting and getting on the same page.

BJK: Therapy gives you the tools to put things in different places. God, I wish I’d had therapy when I was younger.

PG: Here’s what Jason said about denying his sexuality: “You keep saying that the sky is red even though you know it’s blue.” Were you talking about physical urges or keeping quiet?

JC: Both. You just keep trying to believe a lie, even though deep down you know you’re gay. You keep hoping that one day you’ll wake up and the sky really will be red. But you know it’s not a choice. It’s who you are.

PG: Were you lonely during that period?

JC: There were a couple years when I never went on a date. I would stay at home watching TV with my German shepherd, and when people asked what I was doing, I would make up something. So, yeah, I was lonely. Now I don’t have that stress in my life. I’m comfortable and proud of everything I am. I have the choice to stay home, but I have other options, too.

BJK: This is what’s so great about now versus the old days. It took me 20 years to get to that place of comfort in my own skin. It wasn’t until I was 51 and had some therapy. Nothing is exactly the same, but there’s a thread of similarity in figuring all this out.

PG: Plus, you were cofounding the Women’s Tennis Association and democratizing tennis with World Team Tennis, trying to get equal pay for women.

BJK: We still don’t get equal money, except in the major [events]. And you know why equal pay for women is so important? Seventy percent of poverty is with women. If you want to get families out of poverty, get women out of poverty.

PG: And it’s still a homophobic culture rattling around in our heads. Speaking of which, what did you make of “The Kiss” — Michael Sam’s kissing his boyfriend on N.F.L. draft day?

BJK: There were a lot of kisses. And they were real deep kisses, weren’t they?

PG: See? Our conservative sides are coming out. I was going: Enough already. You?

BJK: I think a lot of people felt that.

PG: Was ESPN milking it?

BJK: Of course they were milking it! But that’s not Michael’s fault.

PG: Nobody had a gun on him.

JC: No, no, no. He was being drafted that day. It’s such an emotional moment, going from amateur to professional. I can totally understand the kiss. Being swept away in that emotion. What I thought was hysterical was the cake.

PG: When Sam smashes the cake onto his boyfriend’s face, then kisses it off?

JC: Now that was hilarious to me because regardless of who your significant other is, as a veteran, if I see a rookie doing that …

PG: His nickname is pretty much “Cake” from then on?

JC: We are going to talk about that, especially in a locker room. Actually, my hope is that they do because that’s part of the team dynamic, part of joking with your teammates. It builds that chemistry and love, and you’re one of the guys.

BJK: If they tease you, you’re in. Lots of people don’t get that.

PG: But when you read the online comments about the kiss, you see some of the nastiest, most vulgar stuff around.

JC: You should see my Twitter feed.

BJK: What do you get?

JC: When I came out, I got death threats.

BJK: Me, too. “We’re gonna come get you.” “You’re a slut.”

JC: But I just block that stuff. As a professional athlete, you have to have thick skin.

BJK: It goes with the territory, man. Most of the comments are great. It’s the 1 percent who ruin it.

PG: Let’s get to some other great stuff: Billie Jean’s partner, Ilana Kloss, is also a former tennis player.

BJK: That’s how we met. She was ranked No. 1 in the world in doubles.

PG: And you’ve been together for 35 years?

BJK: Tennis helped us, I think, stick together that way.

PG: Because she’s going with you?

BJK: No, because we’re going with each other.

PG: Well said.

BJK: She was also playing. We retired about the same time, even though she’s a lot younger. I didn’t think about it when we started up, but now I worry. I don’t want her to be alone.

PG: It doesn’t look like you’re going anywhere.

BJK: I know. But 12 years older is a lot.

JC: My boyfriend is 11 years older.

PG: Hello?

BJK: Now we’re getting down to it. Let’s go! Where’d you meet?

JC: We first met at a housewarming party last June, but I was dating someone else at the time. Fast forward to September, I’m single again, and I see him at a party in L.A. So we exchange information because he was leaving for Europe the next day. But while he was gone, I was asking everyone: Have you heard of this guy? The background check.

BJK: You have to be careful.

JC: He’s awesome.

PG: So how long it this been going on?

JC: Nine months.

BJK: That’s good, that’s a long time. And what does he do?

JC: He’s a producer in L.A. [Brunson Green]. His biggest movie is “The Help.”

BJK: I loved “The Help.” I love this guy already. You think it could be long term?

JC: Right now …

BJK: One day at a time?

JC: We’re doing well. We’re getting ready to go to London, to Wimbledon.

BJK: I never knew this guy liked tennis so much.

PG: I know. But how about basketball?

JC: I haven’t decided what I want to do next year. After making my announcement and putting myself in the mind-set of training, I need a mental break.

BJK: It’s exhausting. Emotionally, mentally and physically exhausting.

PG: So you’re still deciding?

JC: Yes. But I just got done working out, so if I choose to continue playing, I’ll be in shape.

BJK: I know what I’d tell him: Play as long as you can, because someday you can’t play, even if you want to.

JC: Father Time is undefeated.

BJK: I had no regrets. I retired at 40.

JC: I turn 36 in December.

BJK: If you’re willing to pay the price, just keep going